Interview– Brandon Wang
“I think what was memorable was what led up to it [implementing two policies to encourage completing licensure exams]. For me, it culminated in a presentation to my leadership to implement these policies. Leading up to it, I really appreciated the amount of support I received for it. A lot of people already expressed support for these changes, and so they felt that brought some relief. It’s not something that leadership is inherently against. I think it's mostly just something that needs more visibility. Most of our leadership is years and years past the time when they themselves were taking exams. And so they're out of touch with what people are going through right now. I was encouraged by that level of their encouragement, and an excitement for these proposed changes. That really stuck.”
What does “good design” mean to you? Good design is design that's invisible, and within that it functions. I think of it primarily as a form of function and how it serves as an “under structure” for our society. Transit and infrastructure are critical components of our cities and it’s all about how they run and how they function. People should be able to rely on those systems and not have them be front of mind. That's what good design should be.
I think a good example of this is the redesign that the Brooklyn Bridge is undergoing, in terms of the pedestrian and by plane infrastructure. Currently, it's a congested space. You have your walkers and your cyclists in one shared row, and there's high traffic in the other. Lots of noise, right? The way I think the redesign that's going on right now, which I think is great, is separating out the bike infrastructure to its dedicated lanes. So you have that space, the shared space just for pedestrians, and thus you are reducing vehicle traffic. Altogether, that's an example of good design where you're strategically thinking of what should be prioritized, and how the different functions have their different needs and respecting those different needs.
What do you think will be considered good design in the future, that people might not appreciate now? What isn't necessarily as affected by contexts or different changes in technology is the need for public space and the need for gathering space. Since the pandemic, as a society we have really relied on public spaces. I think that reminded us of the importance of those kinds of spaces for fresh air, sunlight, and greenery. I think that will be front of mind going forward into the future.
Do you have a favorite designer or artist that you often learn from, or their work constantly gets stuck in your head? One of my most admired artists is Maya Lin. I first read about her through an essay in one of my classes, and since then I have fallen in love with her work. In both her philosophy and her way of thinking, the built and the natural are so deeply part of her works. I really admire that level of integration.
Do you have a set of rules you make for yourself in order to excel in your career? I think I have a couple. One is being nimble, agile and light footed, so you're able to adapt to different positions or jump on to other things quickly. It's hard for me to say that because I've been at my place for many years now, whereas I know others who like to jump around and work in different places and get different experiences. I think that's great. That's another example of being nimble: seeing where there's an opportunity and taking it. That's something that I am trying to do more. I do that in my personal life, but professionally I think I'm trying to still cultivate that.
What are some of the mistakes that you have learned from? I've made mistakes in the sense of missing something in a drawing or miscommunicating something, or not asking for clarification, or making assumptions and turning out to be wrong. I've learned to ask better questions and to be clear about how you're communicating what it is you're looking for specifically, and then asking that from other people as well.
For better communication, instead of asking “What should I do here” or “I have this condition, how can I go about it?,” maybe ask for a more specific one. “Should I be doing this or should I be doing that? “What kind of action should I take?” “Who is doing what? This especially applies when you're dealing with teams and people who are in different levels above and below you. You're much clearer about who is doing what and how they are related. If you say, “Okay, let's just do this,” then there's a lot more jostling to figure out who is responsible for what.
How did your interests in sustainability develop, and how did it evolve to the point you’re at now? For me, sustainability was always just a part of life. I grew up in Vancouver. Nature, the mountains, and the ocean, it was all right there. Having access to that green space really distilled in me the importance of those landscapes in our life, both for our wellbeing and the earth’s wellbeing. So I have always carried that mentality, through my studies at school and throughout my work — really anything that I do on my own as well at home. I think that's where I have maintained that level of sustainability, in just thinking of the natural world. It's an integrated part of our cities that should be better planned and better maintained.
In college, I concentrated in environmental studies and completed a number of classes related to that topic. There was one seminar class that really stuck with me. We essentially learned about sustainable design in all aspects, from architecture to industrial design to packaging. It was really revelatory, both in the number of writings and texts and designers that we were exposed to, but also in using that opportunity to reflect on our own discipline and seeing how we can integrate these practices more.
We also did studies on climate change and incorporating museums and studios. That was a great opportunity to really integrate that sustainable mindset into buildings and how it can be used as a public education tool to bring awareness.
What resources and influences do you look to for practicing and applying sustainability, especially to get you inspired? While I can't say it has a big effect on my day to day work, one book that really stuck with me during college was “Cradle to Cradle.” It was really trying to think of more cyclical ways of producing. It looks at making and building things as a system rather than as a “cradle to grave,” which is a very capitalist and consumerist way of working. Instead, they propose “cradle to cradle,” which is how to turn that linear into a cycle. Instead of something reaching its “lifespan,” how can it get reused or recycled in better ways than before?
I would say the “cradle to grave” method is very much rooted in capitalism in that they want you to buy all these products and things that can't be replaced or fixed easily. There’s an incentive to buy as a convenience and replace as a convenience, rather than buying or using something, keeping it for a long time and being able to repair it. Have it serve many different uses. I think there's a different mindset there.
How would you apply the concept of “Cradle to Cradle” in architecture? One way you can think about it is in terms of materials, for example concrete. How can you use the different components that it takes to build and make concrete, and where do you get those materials? Do you always have to go to natural landscapes to pick and grab all those raw materials? Instead, are there ways that you can reuse building parts and put them back into new buildings or renovate buildings, rather than always going with the new virgin materials? How can you look beyond its lifespan?
Especially in New York City with so many existing buildings, adaptive reuse is really important for historic preservation rehabilitation. If you need to demolish and remove an old building, then you need to deal with that waste. Plus all the waste that comes with building a new building. I think, unless people intentionally plan to reuse it, then a lot of it just ends up in landfill.
What are you curious to find out about sustainability in the future? What would be something that would interest you, but you haven't discovered yet? I'm curious to see just how widespread and how part of the process sustainability becomes. For those who design and build in the future, I think that there are certain places outside of the US that really embrace that level of sustainability. It’s just so much a part of the process, you don't even really have to speak about it. It comes naturally. Whereas here, we often think of it as, “Okay, there's the main design and you have to make it ‘sustainable’, and you need to add this other component into the mix.” I'm really looking forward to seeing when that becomes part of the mix from the beginning and that becomes how we think of buildings from the very start.
What would be an example of a culture that has more sustainability integrated into their system? I believe in France, or Paris at least, there are laws that say any new building has to have either a green roof or blue roof. That's a city wide initiative to put sustainability into the forefront of planning, and I think that’s important. It's tied with economics, it's tied with energy use. It's not just the city making the “let's make the world greener,” argument because that won't get everyone on board. If you tie it with money funding, then that becomes more approachable.
So let’s talk about the ARE (Architecture Licensing Exam). I remember you reached out saying that you’d like to interview young professionals on their experiences, how companies support their education, and getting their license. Would you be able to describe how that journey started, how it progressed, and where are you at now? It really started right after graduation. I immediately started working in my office, and I was encouraged by the culture of seeing licensure as a milestone in your career, and using that credential. It was not just only for status, that wasn't really for me its purpose. It was more of using that as a goal to make progress, learn, and get exposed to different parts of practicing as an architect, by going through the many exams that you have to do. Logging all of the hours that you need to log for the experience. I decided to try and just really power through it, and I don't like to linger on these kinds of experiences. I think they're good for your working experience but I don't like to dwell on it. I just took that as an opportunity to really push through.
I got my license in October 2019, right when I was 25 years old. Since then I've been able to elevate a little bit in my career with it. I also look to really help guide and mentor others who are going through that same journey right now, looking for answers or advice on their own path. I think it was about a year or so ago when I reached out and I asked for people to share their experiences with how their office supports licensure. As a newly licensed architect, I was trying to create a better culture and more nourishing environment for that kind of growth in a professional setting. For me it started by saying, “Okay, what do other people have as support, and how are their supervisors giving them the space, time, and the resources that they need?,” and I think the answers of others were pretty varied. There were some that were more or less on their own, they didn't really have much dedicated time for it, and they had to find their own resources to schedule their own time on the off hours. Then there is the other side of the spectrum, which is to have full libraries. Your exam dues are paid for by the company, and there are additional bonuses or incentives for getting licensed. There was a wide variety of answers there.
How did it pivot? After gaining that information, how did you implement that idea? How did you decide that you wanted to do this? Is it purely from your experience, or did it gradually grow after the interviews? I think it really came through hearing from a lot of my peers, as well as my past coworkers who expressed concern with the level of support that they were receiving. Comparably for me, I heard from friends at other companies who had more resources available to them. So I took it upon myself to say. “Okay, with that knowledge, and hearing the concerns of my peers, what can we do to help support them more?,” Not only for staff retention and keeping people a part of the culture, but to also show support so that they know that we value their place within our office and that they are part of our ecosystem. We want to help them grow, and so I think that that really spurred my initiative to try and bolster our office’s policies.
There were basically two policies that were the benefit of that sort of action. One was an additional bonus to those who achieved their license. The other was for at least getting half of any past exam fee paid for by the office or reimbursed. A sub benefit that's tied to those two is that instead of having one large bonus at the end of completing all of your exams, it's broken up. So if you pass an exam, incrementally you get reimbursed for half of it, then when you get past your next one, you get that other half of it reimbursed. So it's more of a step by step process. That is a form of encouragement rather than seeing it as a totality, and that can be a little bit overbearing for a lot of people.
I think what was memorable was what led up to it. For me, it culminated in a presentation to my leadership to implement these policies. Leading up to it, I really appreciated the amount of support I received for it. A lot of people already expressed support for these changes, and so they felt that brought some relief. It’s not something that leadership is inherently against. I think it's mostly just something that needs more visibility. Most of our leadership is years and years past the time when they themselves were taking exams. And so they're out of touch with what people are going through right now. I was encouraged by that level of their encouragement, and an excitement for these proposed changes. That really stuck.
Did you have a mentor in the process? I did, Ruth Ro. She's an associate principal at my firm. We've been in a mentor-mentee relationship for several years now. I brought it up with her a couple times as well throughout the process, and she was always 100% on board & fully supportive. She's also a leader in LGBTQ and diversity rights, and so for her it was only natural that this kind of support gets written into policy.
She was someone you can really go to with big questions, but also approachable for any kind of day-to-day conversation. She’s someone you can chat with. I think our relationship really deepened during the pandemic. Getting closer with her, and us being able to share stories and share where we were coming from, that really adds a deep level of humanism that can often get forgotten or neglected in a professional workplace setting.
How was your experience in the process of obtaining the ARE (Architecture Licensing Exam)? I think one struggle that was part of the licensing process was the sheer amount of time and work that you need to put in for it. I had basically sequestered myself at home just to study for endless hours. There's a lot of work put in. I really cut myself away from a lot of my social gatherings just to be able to focus on this. There were times where it was difficult to do all that work and you then get a failed result, like with my first exam, and you have to do it all over again. I think being able to keep up that level of engagement was really tough because I could get so discouraged. Saying to someone, “Oh, you just need to work through it,” I think that's not always very helpful. People need their time to process and work through any of these issues that come up during the process. So I think I struggled through that a little bit as well. I was lucky enough I managed to achieve it in a few months.
If you were your mentor, what would you tell yourself during that first exam? I would say, move on. Sure, it sucks to get that result, but try not to dwell on it. Look at it objectively, learn from it, pick it apart, see where you fell short. You don't have to pick it back up right away. I think you can let it sit for a little bit, take your mind off of it, and then come back to it when you're ready. Sometimes I was all, “Go! Go! Go! Keep going, don't stop, don't lose momentum,” but I think that that's not always sustainable. So slowing down and letting things sit, and then coming back to them when you're ready. I could have really used that advice.
It's also just part of how I grew up, where there was a lot of emphasis on achievement and doing good things in keeping active. That can be great because it's a great motivation, but I think that taking time for yourself is just as important. So knowing the battleland.
How did COVID influence your mentorship experience from the AXP group? The biggest thing, of course, was that people decided to pause their exams, understandably, because there were bigger things to focus on. For several months that was the case, but then things started to pick back up. In the early Fall of 2020, we finally said, “Okay, we need to adapt to this new routine, this new situation.” I was doing my best remotely to ensure that all the resources were made available digitally, and to be there as a resource for people to just come and chat. I questioned myself about it a lot. Is it worth doing all this when there's a pandemic going on? People are getting sick and dying. I think people have struggled with justifying why they're still spending so much time studying. I just said to them, “This is where you should just take time for yourself and focus on what you need to focus on. Don't ever feel pressured to pursue this. You should come in with your whole self, and not at the behest of someone else.” I hope that that message helped.
I've met a number of people in my life who I learned were practically working as architects, but had never ever thought of being licensed. They just don't want to or they don't plan to for whatever reason. I'm sure that they have asked the same question as well. Is it worth it? I think it depends on what you want out of it. For me I think it was worth it, because I had set a goal. I went through the steps to get it, and then there it was, and now I can move on to something else.
What is the kindest thing someone has done for you? Many years ago I worked at a gelato kitchen, of all places in New York City. It was part of a summer job. They knew that I was in architecture school and wanted to be an architect. Several years later after I graduated I moved to New York. I went back to them and asked them for a birthday cake. When I went to pick up the cake, they remembered me and left a little note in the order and it said, “Brandon, someday you will win a Pritzker Prize.” That was such a nice thing because not only did they remember me, they also believed in me. I'm sure they did it as a joke, but I still remember that for many years ago because it showed that they cared. I still have that little slip of paper in my apartment. That was one of the greatest. It's the gelato kitchen on Houston st near the F train. It's right next door to Katz's Deli.
