Interview– Pini Lipman
Owner and General Contractor @Sunshine Renovations Management
Photographer: Goseong - Website - IG
Editor: Ryan Kane
“Try to have good people working for you. It’s very hard because I try to have fun, and then I have a couple of good managers. Today I was on a job, and my guy has been working on it for two weeks so far. This is one of my older managers. He builds and invests in everything. He looked at one section of the drawing area and saw that there was an extension. Charlie was standing there and I decided to have a meeting on it tomorrow. I told him I was in the area and would take a look. When I got there I wasn’t shocked. So, you have to surround yourself with good people as much as you can. Have a good person managing the office, because if I was doing my own paperwork I would go crazy and wouldn’t be able to manage anything.”
How did you get into this profession? I come from Israel, where we didn't get many opportunities like going to college. We had to go to the army for two years right after high school. When you get out of the army, it's hard to start learning at 21/22 after three years of training. I also didn't have the money to go to school. I had to make a living and had to think about what I was good at, and I knew that I was good with my hands. So I tried to build things and from there I got into this industry
When I immigrated here to America I still didn't have a college degree. I tried to study for my bachelor’s in the evening. It was hard to juggle everything: classes, work, family. For a job I looked for something that I felt comfortable with. I started working in construction and I found out, little by little, that I'm better at managerial work. While I was very good with my hands, I was just as good with planning and pricing. Managing became the central focus of my mind, and eventually I opened my own company. I founded this company out of necessity, not by choice. I needed to make a living and that's what I knew how to do, and I always knew how to build.
While this was in the US, I realize that I already started working towards this in Israel. I had small jobs there but the ones that always stuck with me were in construction. I would build balconies and make homes out of aluminum, and little by little I had the technical knowledge. So I started managing job sites, and I realized there were no managing companies out there. So I made my own.
How is it different from your experience in construction in Israel compared to the States? America is different from Israel and most other countries. The whole method is different. Nowadays we get a lot of countries that use cluster and sheetrock. Back in the day, in my country and others it used to be only blocks and breakstones. Everything is blocked by brick and stoned in. In Israel, we use a lot of steel but no wood. So there’s no wood frames nor is there plaster sheetrock walls and such. Even with the partitions inside the house we’ll use blocks and plaster them. This is a little different from the US, but Israel is a different and smaller country. Bureaucracy is the same in both countries, but in the US it differs in building. I had to learn a lot of new protocols, for instance safety considerations. Nowadays I don’t see much difference between the US and Israel, but the whole method of building is different. It mostly starts from using distinctive materials.
Mostly, they’re of a different mentality, like two contrasting personalities. In Israel, it feels as if everybody is family and we are very close to one another. Let’s say I come to work at your house. The first thing that happens when I come in is that you will give me coffee and cake to eat prior to my starting. Everyone knows who you are. They know your family, your history, you’ll have dinners together. It feels a little more intimate.
In the US it’s more of a professional relationship. They would consider the above behavior to be unprofessional, and that applies to many facets of life. This has nothing to do with construction, but when I first came to America I asked my neighbor how much he paid his gardener, and then somebody told me that you don’t ask that kind of question in the US. There would be no problem in Israel. If someone sees you on the street there, they’ll ask “How’re you doing? Anything lucky happen?” If I served in the army with you 15 years ago and happen to run into you today, I can ask how you’ve been doing all these years, what you’re doing now, and how much money you’re making. There are no boundaries and people are more friendly. When I do a construction job there and I sit down for a glass of wine on a nice table, I can ask how much the table cost. Here, that’s not something to ask. For new clients, it took me several months before I knew what they did because I never asked. Over time I’ll get to know them, but in Israel we’ll talk and hug and it’s more connected with everybody. People are more worried about doing that with laws here in the states. In Italy I think it’s the same, people are all more buddy-buddy with one another. There was an Italian accused of touching who thought he was doing nothing wrong, but he was also a generally toxic person in the office. Even though he felt it was a normal thing, everyone interpreted it poorly because of his overall reputation.
If you work for me and everything is going well, I may tap you and not think twice about it. It could be different if there’s bad energy in the air, if you’re afraid of this person because they’re very controlling and manipulative. When the environment is bad to begin with, everything gets interpreted differently. At my company we try to make it a joyful office. We might not be the most politically correct, and we definitely don’t want to be rude or offensive, but for me at least I’m more than happy to laugh about myself, my people, my country, my gender, so I don’t think twice about it.
Did you have a memorable mentor throughout your career? My old boss was my best mentor. He taught me how to be professional in America and how to deal with people. Although he could be a little hard headed, he was very good with people. In his own business, he taught me how I’d run my own.
I learn from almost anything that I do. It was mostly in working for him and seeing how we approached the job that I feel most proud of. My biggest complaint is the people who do the job just to get paid and get the glory and go home for Sundays. I want to feel proud when someone comes up to me and praises me for the work that I did with my hands. That’s really nice to know that I did the best job that you could.
For this job, at the beginning I felt like I had the answers and would shoot right over to a project. The clients knew I was excited and maybe that wasn’t the best for them. In business terms, I know I need to pace myself with my work. If I get information from someone, maybe I don’t send out my response right away. There’s always clients who want answers “now-now-now”, so my strategy would be to have five answers back. I could give them two answers per week, and schedule the rest out so that I have more time to work on other projects. That’s a big thing that I’ve learned.
What is the best way to handle conflicts within the industry? To me it's more important to finish. I see the bigger picture and the amount of money that I’m owed. I think that’s my personality. I think 70-80% of my contracts aren’t the same, and I can tell you that I’m right, that’s how I am. If the profit is smaller and I get a little less compensation, I’ll get out of there, but if I get more it’s better for me to keep moving on and hold on to my principles. When I get my money a few weeks later it’s better than arguing over my price with the client because of what I did or didn’t do. I’m not sure if it’s worth the principle, and it’s better to just take the money.
The clients can keep fighting over what I’m owed and then delay in paying me because of it. The financial side of this business is really hard for me to handle, I’m way more into the artistic side. I can be too soft, give too much and give up too quickly because I don’t have the patience to argue about the finances.
What is your favorite part of the job? I like to create and explore the creative side of myself. I like to see things take shape and see them to the end. In almost every job, even the ones that feel very in-and-out, you think about them in a more financial way. How do we keep the company moving, pay the salaries, and achieve the high end jobs? They can be very challenging, especially in finding out how it works out and what the solution is. In a visual way, an architect will give me something on paper and I’ll have to translate that into a physical space. 70%-80% things don’t work out so easily. You have to really think about how to do it properly, to make sure that everything aligns when creating something. You may have to copy, or for instance you can have existing wood work that you have to figure out how to match. There’s the financial part and then there’s the creative part. I like to see jobs when they start, in the middle, all of the phases of the work. I especially like to see jobs finish, and come to the site at the end once things are all cleaned up. Once people move in and they furnish the space, you can finally fully see what you’ve created. Sometimes I’m willing to compromise on the money or the time I need to work on the project, so long as I know that I’ve made something just right. So that’s what I like about it.
Architects that you would prefer to work with? I like creative architects. I don’t like architects who make decisions too slowly, I like good quick decisions. I like people who pay attention. I like it when architects answer the phone. It’s very important for me that I don’t have to run after them all the time. It doesn’t work with just email, sometimes you need the answer right away and that’s best on the phone. Not everybody understands the importance of that, but I try to explain to people why it’s important. I’ve had an architect who would not answer the phone, and I explained to him that we can always talk on the phone first then do email or face to face afterwards, which a lot of people like to do. When I call an architect, I need something right there on the spot. If I don’t get it, like if there’s a discrepancy in the drawings that I need clarified, then I’m losing a day and sometimes more until you get back to me.
Part that you don’t like about your job? What I don’t like about it is the total grinding aggravation on a constant level. So, for instance you sell something and get a complaint from your buyers, or if the merchandise arrives defective at any phase. So I have to work as I deal with them, make the customer’s happy and tend to their complaints, repair the mistakes, and check up on them. For example, I have an architect doing design on the job, and then I have the client. Each one of them comes in with their own demands and complaints. Sometimes I’ll get calls in the middle of the night. This type of aggravation and running after people for payments is regular for construction. There’s so many things that can happen, from the paperwork to the safety. It’s nonstop 24/7, from all directions. I call it aggravation, it’s the annoying part of the job.
I deal with it more because I tend to be more personal. A lot of people don't want to just call my office. I try to be there on the side for every meeting, I try to make myself accessible whenever I give my phone number to a client. If they need anything they can call or text me, and I’ll get all these calls and texts on the weekend and at night. 1000s of times it’s from these clients and it can be up to 10 jobs at once, and this availability is more for them. Sometimes people call me and I don’t even know what jobs they’re referring to! So the rule is you make yourself available to accelerate at your job.
Any tips when overwhelmed? When you start having too many jobs it becomes hard, but I try as much as I can, at least once every couple days to go over things on the phone to keep the clients informed, and every day with my job managers. I like to have a hands-on approach. I try to answer the calls from architects and clients whenever they ring me. I try to attend every meeting personally. I try to go into all of the details, write down what I have to order or try to get, figure out what to manage, what to look for online. I try to push myself to do all these things, even if I think sometimes that my job managers should be doing my work. You need a good work ethic because you’re the boss, wake up early and try to push yourself every day while still trying not to get overloaded. It’s all about balance. ”
How is it different from your experience in construction in Israel compared to the States? [Being in the military at a younger age] It makes you tougher and makes you grow up. Some people say it’s too quick, and for me I got drafted when there was a war. It’s like asking somebody here that served in the Vietnam War or on a tour in Iraq, it’s different for somebody serving now. A lot of people in my country will just spend their serving time patrolling on a beach or something like that. For me it was a different experience because I grew up too quick at 17. It’s a life code, you learn how to behave and how to take responsibility for yourself, and then how to take responsibility for others once you move up the ranks. By that point, you are responsible for somebody’s life, and you don’t want to be the one to tell their parents that they are not coming home and give your condolences. You want to make sure that their kid is kept safe.
So you learn to grow up quickly, but you also make friends for life. Sometimes when I’m at my sister's, suddenly the house is full of my friends from the army, and I’m like, wow, after 35 years I still know you guys. You become family, you learn the value of responsibility, and then the value of friendship. It helps you with everything you do in life, to take more responsibility with your mistakes. You learn how to be on time, which is a big thing for me. 99.9% of people who meet with me don’t understand why I appreciate their coming on time, because a lot of people don’t. Many will say they couldn’t find parking, very rarely will they come in and look for parking an hour before the meeting. Being on time is a responsibility that my older bosses instilled in me. You don’t want to make a client wait for you. In the army you learn a strong work ethic quickly.
Since the day I became a sergeant it has affected everything in my life afterwards. As a sergeant, you have to learn how to talk to people, how to manage people, how to punish people, how to make people accountable. In the first year, you learn how to make yourself accountable. You learn how to get your body in shape, you get punished all the time, you have to do a lot of physical labor. Plus, I was in a real war so you learn a lot of things.
When my son Charlie was born and I became responsible for a kid’s life, I realized that being a parent, being in charge of a company, everything in life imitates one another. I have to talk to people, be tough yet respectful, relate to younger people, relate to parents. Sometimes I’ll get orders from higher-ups, and I’ll have to relay that order downwards. That requires some navigation to change the order a little bit depending on who I’m giving it to. So it’s about being flexible, but still staying in line with orders in a very strict frame. In my line of work I always try to explain to the workers on time.
So everything imitates each other, then keep everyone in line, learn how to multitask and manage several projects at once. Everything I’ve learned in life I attribute to that.
I also spent three years in boarding school, away from home. There I learned how to live with other people and how to be respectful, how to stand on my own two feet. You learn basic things, how to share a room with people, shower with other people, eat politely and share food. So I see that I already got a head start before my adulthood and professional life.
So in the military, let’s say I’m a lieutenant, but there’s a colonel. I have to be respectful to him. If I don’t agree with him, there is a certain degree that I can voice my opinion. Sometimes I can, but others I just have to do the act itself. When you provide the order downwards, you have to do the same thing. You have to be respectful to anybody who will question the order when you give it to them. You have to abide by their opinion, but you have to be tough with them at the same time. I have also been touched up by the APA arsenal, so that’s how you learn how to balance it. If it’s a very strict frame, you give an order and somebody has to do it. On the other hand, you have to be human and compassionate. Sometimes the only way to learn is by being punished. In the army if you do something wrong you have to for example run five miles or do push ups. In construction you may have to stay on the project another week, or stay late when everyone can go home, but in the field you still need compassion. If there’s a person who has a very unique situation and needs to go home, they should go, and you can find another punishment for them when they get back. I think teachers and bosses have to know how to do this. I learned this very early given my background.
Any tips on owning a business? Try to have good people working for you. It’s very hard because I try to have fun, and then I have a couple of good managers. Today I was on a job, and my guy has been working on it for two weeks so far. This is one of my older managers. He builds and invests in everything. He looked at one section of the drawing area and saw that there was an extension. Charlie was standing there and I decided to have a meeting on it tomorrow. I told him I was in the area and would take a look. When I got there I wasn’t shocked. So, you have to surround yourself with good people as much as you can. Have a good person managing the office, because if I was doing my own paperwork I would go crazy and wouldn’t be able to manage anything.
How do you interact with people? Do you have any tips as GC needs to be dealing with a lot of people? It depends [how I want to present myself to people I work with], like everything in life. I don’t have a formula for it, I just go by my gut feeling. If I feel that you are nicer, I’ll be the same. I conduct myself in a certain way when I am with my team on a job site. If I have a strange feeling about somebody, I’ll give back the same. You’re going to have to deal with so many different personalities. If it’s somebody who’s more hot headed or someone who’s more calm, I try to stay the same. If they were too hot-headed, I would try to calm down or end the phone call on time and then call them back. I try to learn as quickly and as early as I can about other people's personalities so I can deal with it properly. Basically, I try to be myself. I could be shouting back at one person, but I’ll talk nice to another. If someone is annoying me too much, I’ll let them know. It’s all about feeling the vibe, I can observe this in the way that they talk to other people. If someone doesn’t answer me then I may start doing the same. It’s enough to save a talk for one time, where we can address everything together and listen to one another, and then we can follow up the next week with a meeting. If I have to complain about something I have to start pushing limits on the side.
So you learn people’s personalities, and you try to be yourself when you can. Treat people with the same respect that you’d treat a stranger on the street if you can. Just as they can decide to work with another person, so can I if I feel like our personalities don’t match. If we’re already working together, I do my best to make the relationship work.
