Interview– Sandy Wen
"The narrative is crucial, especially when designing offices in different countries. For example, office design in Denmark can focus more on aesthetics, while in the US, functionality and logistical solutions take priority. Whatever budget remains is then used for branding. Through my experience in designing offices and conducting research, I've learned that while the physical appearance may not always be flashy, the layout and floor plan are key considerations, drawing on basic architectural principles. While I initially gravitated towards more design-heavy projects, such as hospitality, I've come to appreciate the programmatic side of office design. Clients in the hospitality industry are often more open-minded and receptive to unique design concepts, which can make the process more enjoyable."
What does good design mean to you? It has to be. It has to work for the certain people or the environment, it is in, you know, it has to work for everything that got to be impacted by it, or has to gods who experienced that. So, whoever is using the space or whoever is using the product let's say if it's a product design, you have to think about all their needs and the end product or the end design has to suit everybody who got the chance to use it or experiences. Also you have to think about the impact of how this will bring to the environment, because that's something I personally really feel like we should do better, especially interior design wise I feel like architectural wise yes there's the lead. There's a lot of laws that is kind of putting constraints around it, but that interior rail, still is more like for throwing money on like materials which is not necessarily sustainable, or they just buy cheap stuff for like a retail pop up and then just throw away the next day you know there's a lot of things because they knows interiors sometimes is cosmetic right so they don't really think about how it might impact the whole environment like the even the neighborhood, you know, so. Yeah, so I feel like the design should be like from the inside. It gives people a good experience. And then, but from the outside kind of doesn't impact the society or the environment, a good way, not in a bad way I tried the minimum the, you know, the ways sort of stuff. You know the creative for the environment.
Sometimes I feel it's a little bit difficult to find out [what the client wants]. Some people don't know what they want. So how do you explain to them about the things that they thought they didn't need, but actually do for the sake of good design? I think that's when research comes into play. For example, in the firm that I work with we work for a lot of office clients. We spend a lot of time doing research interviews with their employees, from the executive level to the veteran employees who have worked at the firm for years. We’ll give out questionnaires, as well as some scenarios and design prompts for them to give us feedback. We try to get as much information as we can from them. With this information, we’ll try to target what their problem is, and that's the first step of the design. We’ll then go through their current space and analyze it, and then we’ll figure out the solution. Especially with large companies, we're trying to help them figure out how to reconfigure their post-COVID office environment for their employees. That’s something no one has figured out yet.
For residential work, I try to spend time with the client in their current space. I first visit their home and have coffee or dinner with the client so I can understand who they are, what their lifestyle is like, what they'd like to do, etc. Then I design a space that really fits them. I prefer it far more than to just find their Instagram, look at their pictures and determine what looks ‘cool’. Clients will often try this with me and show me pictures of sofas, TV walls, etc, and then they’ll quickly realize that it’s not what they really want. They may have a lifestyle where they don’t really watch TV, or they like to workout at home, and that should really affect what is ultimately brought into their home. Yesterday a potential client was asking if it was important to get artwork that’s the size of a sofa that he was interested in. I told him that he has to figure out his space first.
See, it’s about how you utilize it given your lifestyle, and then ask yourself if you even need a sofa. I don't have a sofa, but I never really lay down on sofas given my lifestyle. So I try to figure out what individuals need, not what they think they want.
I like that you mentioned designing a questionnaire. And you mentioned that you also have different questions for people in different departments at different hierarchy levels within the shared office space. Could you give me an example of what specific question you might ask? How would you design a questionnaire? In the office, a CEO’s or executive’s concerns will be very different from those who work in the IT department or the programming team or front desk reception. Depending on who you are, we’ll send you three diagrams of different desk setups. One option could be of an open office that allows you to stay fully connected with people, the second option could be a ‘pod’ setup where you still have your own space but have a visible connection with those around you, and then the third one could even be in a similar style to a cafe setup where you can hold open meetings with others. These are very diagrammatic options, so we’ll ask them to choose one and then tell us why. If they are a programmer or an engineer, they may say they want a more private space.
You would not ask the same for an executive, as they’ll care less about what you are designing for them but more about the work setup for their employees, especially given new hybrid work models post-COVID. We’ll review how many employees they have and how many people they’ll hire in the next several years. It’s more about a broader scope of how they’ll see the firm growing holistically. An executive needs to identify the core value of their company, and how they may pivot to attract new talent. Once we have this information, we can later get back to them and say, “OK, if you want to achieve your company’s goals, this is what the team will need for a space.” Rather than do the work independently, we try to work together with the executive team so we can do the proper research and analysis. Once we do our presentation, we’ll get their feedback and learn more.
How did you build your career? What made you decide to go on the path that you are on now? I picked interior design because I like working with 3-dimensional spaces and objects. It first started in high school, as I began looking at majors for college. I was interested in design and art related work, and interior design looked like something that I really wanted to do. Even after college, when you realize it’s not always fun work, I still love how you can create space, sometimes large, that people can respond to and experience. Every time I see a project that is completed, I can walk into the space and see that people are actually enjoying their time there. That gives me the feeling of happiness.
Interior design has more possibilities. When I started applying to jobs, I realized how much I liked the spaces of hospitals, hotels, restaurants, bars, anything in hospitality. These places can be fun and bring out both the design element as well as the personalities attached to them. I got my first start in a firm doing mostly restaurants and motels.
Why do you prefer designing restaurants over office space? Realistically, my clients who work in offices don’t necessarily focus and invest money on the design piece, they want it to be functionable with their branding tied to the design. For hospitality, everything is about the experience, so you have to really create something that feels totally different, but at the same time make the patrons feel good and willing to come back. You also might work with the chef, and everybody who helps make the restaurant successful. It feels as if you are working with a small business partner, and you are making something together.
The narrative is important. Your office design can feel much stronger in a country like Denmark, as opposed to a US office that’s more functional with logistical problems that you have to solve. Whatever money is left after that goes to the branding. Because I'm now doing more offices and the research that goes into it, I find it interesting that although visually you may not often create a very fancy office, on the programmatic side you are looking at the layout, the concept of the floor plan, etc, and so you go back to a basic architectural theory of thinking. I’ve grown to like that more, but when I first began interior design I was more attracted to the design aspects and was drawn to hospitality projects. Those clients tend to want something cool, like in their furniture, so they tend to be more open minded. It’s easier for them to buy into your proposed concept.
What set of rules do you make to yourself to excel in your role as a designer or as an artist? For my self discipline, I try to remind myself not to be a perfectionist. I can spend a lot of time on every task and every detail on the project because I want to get everything perfect. The problem is there are deadlines, and you can often spend too much time on one aspect and not charge the hours for it. I finally learned that when I was a junior, when I became involved in project management. Now I try to be very cautious about how much time I spend on every little thing. Otherwise, I would be way over the design budget if I did that. It’s not an efficiency problem, as I’m still doing things in the right way. On my own, I still have the mindset of wanting to find the perfect couch that’s new and different. For a client, it’s not necessary. You can always pick something that you may have almost used for another client, there’s no need to stress over going above and beyond the time to find the perfect solution. If I had to go through another search for new furniture, new materials, I’d wind up stressing myself out too much on things I should not spend too much time on.
How do you now determine how much time you spend on a task? It comes from having more experience, especially the busier you get. You know better about how to manage your time. For instance, if you only have three projects at once, as a designer you could spend more time looking for the perfect options, or you want to keep working on a rendering in Photoshop and try to get it to a perfect state. But if you have a lot of projects at hand, then you have to allocate the time in a more balanced way for every project. This mindset helped me to remind myself when to stop and when to move to the next project. The goal is to get everything good enough for a presentation for client feedback.
When I first started working I tried to get everything together for the Schematic Design. Sometimes you shouldn't get too specific at that stage, otherwise it will restrict the options that might come later. So it's about how to allocate your time at different stages among different projects. I feel like this is something that I'm still learning but I think I'm doing better now than before. I try to keep reminding myself that I don't need to think about how much time I should be spending, if it’s worth it, and if we need to get to a certain stage. Do we have to do multiple drawings or it can be just a hand sketch? You could be spending too much time doing multiple cat dries for a m villworker, but you can also just do a sketch and then just send it to them and instantly get feedback. It's very important how to present projects without spending too much time on the unnecessary.
Do you plan by the day, by the week, or by the month? I normally will plan by the day, for my personal work. I will have an ‘emergency’ list of things that must be done first, and then move on to the rest after. If I can get a few of those secondary tasks done, then great. If not, I will still have to keep those tasks on at a gradual pace. In my firm we have a broad plan at the beginning when we first start a project. We had the overall estimate of the hours that we are going to spend. That breakdown is very detailed by phases. For example with SD, we're doing joint plan elevation as well. Then for each of the projects it all depends on how complicated it is. I’ll determine if I need to spend, say, four hours to figure out the plans, and eight hours to figure out the details. Everyone on the team will agree to the times, including my boss. So we then allocate the times and when I begin the project I’ll time myself using time tracking software. I'll always just check back to the original estimate that we did internally and see if I’m over the estimate. If the client has a smaller budget, then I’ll know I should not be spending too much time on the project. I’m trying to get used to the system of self-checking, which is super important.
Design is one thing, but thinking like a project manager is also super important. Yes, especially when you are a junior designer. The first firm I ever worked for was a team of great designers, but they were very, very bad at project management. They tried hiring a project manager and she quit some time after. They never hired another person because they did not think it was that important. To my former boss, he felt that if we were passionate about design then we could do the project management ourselves. He was also a workaholic and wanted to make everything perfect, so he spent too much time on the projects when he didn’t have to. I don’t think he was charging extra for the time, and everyone at the firm was working overtime as well to try and get it to the perfect place. This isn’t sustainable for a business.
Later on when I switched firms, they had an excellent project manager who would advise me to spend, say, 15 minutes on a certain task, and if it takes longer then I would let her know. A great project manager will give you the sense that there is a limited amount of time to be spent. The company has to survive.
So how do you spend your time wisely... It's hard to figure this out for yourself, but the advice I would give to those new in the field is to focus on time management. This is something nobody will ever tell you when you first start working. For me, when I began I wanted to do things perfectly and keep working on the task at hand (like a drawing). Nobody would tell me the manager’s perspective: how much my time would cost, the amount of time I should spend. Stuff would just be thrown at me, and I’d have to figure this all out myself.
